Legislature(2011 - 2012)BARNES 124

03/24/2011 03:00 PM House ENERGY


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Audio Topic
03:08:38 PM Start
03:09:33 PM HJR23
03:17:16 PM Overview: Department of Natural Resources on the Natural Gas Potential in the Nenana River Basin, the Susitna River Basin, the Copper River Valley Basin, and the Bering Sea Region
04:19:11 PM Overview(s): Rural Cap's Energy Wise Program to Reduce Energy Costs
05:01:32 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ - Natural Gas Potential in the Nenana River, TELECONFERENCED
Susitna River, and Copper River Valley Basins,
and the Bering Sea Region
+ - RurAL CAP's Energy Wise Program to Reduce TELECONFERENCED
Energy Costs
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HJR 23 HYDROELECTRIC POWER; RENEWABLE ENERGY TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON ENERGY                                                                              
                         March 24, 2011                                                                                         
                           3:08 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neal Foster, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Lance Pruitt, Co-Chair                                                                                           
Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                         
Representative Dan Saddler                                                                                                      
Representative Pete Petersen                                                                                                    
Representative Chris Tuck                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kurt Olson                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 23                                                                                                   
Urging the United States Congress to classify hydroelectric                                                                     
power as a renewable and alternative energy source.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HJR 23 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW(S):  DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES ON THE NATURAL GAS                                                                
POTENTIAL IN THE NENANA RIVER BASIN, THE SUSITNA RIVER BASIN,                                                                   
THE COPPER RIVER VALLEY BASIN, AND THE BERING SEA REGION                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW(S):  RURAL CAP'S ENERGY WISE PROGRAM TO REDUCE ENERGY                                                                  
COSTS                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HJR 23                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: HYDROELECTRIC POWER; RENEWABLE ENERGY                                                                              
SPONSOR(s): ENERGY                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
03/16/11       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/16/11       (H)       ENE                                                                                                    
03/22/11       (H)       ENE AT 3:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/22/11       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/22/11       (H)       MINUTE(ENE)                                                                                            
03/24/11       (H)       ENE AT 3:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BOB SWENSON, Director                                                                                                           
Central Office                                                                                                                  
Division of Geological & Geophysical Surveys                                                                                    
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided a PowerPoint  presentation titled,                                                             
"Sedimentary Basins of Alaska."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SARA SCANLAN, Deputy Director                                                                                                   
Rural Alaska Community Action Program, Inc.                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Introduced  a   PowerPoint  presentation                                                             
titled,  "Rural Alaska  Community Action  Program, Inc.'s  Energy                                                               
Wise Program."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CATHIE CLEMENTS, Community Development Division Director                                                                        
Rural Alaska Community Action Program, Inc.                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Assisted  in  a  PowerPoint  presentation                                                             
titled,  "Rural Alaska  Community Action  Program, Inc.'s  Energy                                                               
Wise Program."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ELLEN KAZARY, Community Development Manager                                                                                     
Rural Alaska Community Action Program, Inc.                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Assisted  in  a  PowerPoint  presentation                                                             
titled,  "Rural Alaska  Community Action  Program, Inc.'s  Energy                                                               
Wise Program."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DIANA RAMOTH                                                                                                                    
Selawik, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on Rural                                                             
Alaska Community Action Program, Inc.'s Energy Wise Program.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:08:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  NEAL  FOSTER  called the  House  Special  Committee  on                                                             
Energy meeting  to order  at 3:08  p.m.   Representatives Foster,                                                               
Pruitt, Petersen,  Saddler, Lynn,  and Tuck  were present  at the                                                               
call to order.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          HJR 23-HYDROELECTRIC POWER; RENEWABLE ENERGY                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:09:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER announced that the  first order of business would                                                               
be  HOUSE  JOINT RESOLUTION  NO.  23,  Urging the  United  States                                                               
Congress  to  classify hydroelectric  power  as  a renewable  and                                                               
alternative energy source.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER  reminded the committee of  the discussion during                                                               
the  House  Special  Committee  on  Energy  meeting  on  3/22/11,                                                               
regarding a conceptual amendment offered by Representative Tuck.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:10:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK moved to adopt Amendment 1, which read:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 17, following "source":                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
        Insert ", as long as there is no other economic                                                                         
     competition for the water resource,"                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER objected for discussion purposes.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  urged the committee to  forward a meaningful                                                               
resolution to  Congress.  He said  there is no reason  that water                                                               
and hydroelectric  (hydro) are not  a renewable  energy resource,                                                               
and pointed out  that Alaska is unable to take  full advantage of                                                               
the tax credits that are  available for renewable and alternative                                                               
sources  of  energy.     Representative  Tuck  recalled  previous                                                               
discussions on  how to protect  interests so that  the resolution                                                               
will pass,  and opined  that the  addition of  the aforementioned                                                               
amendment will assuage the concerns of other states.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:12:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN  added  that  the  amendment  makes  the                                                               
language in  the resolution compatible  with the  definition that                                                               
the  U.S. Senate  Committee on  Energy and  Natural Resources  is                                                               
considering;   in  addition,   it   would   support  the   Alaska                                                               
Congressional delegation's efforts.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  questioned  the  need  to  carve  out  a                                                               
special   exception  because   the  resolution   makes  a   clear                                                               
statement.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT expressed his concern  that the amendment creates                                                               
redundancy; for example,  in order to receive a  license from the                                                               
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission  (FERC) a hydro project must                                                               
prove  through the  environmental  impact statement  that it  has                                                               
water rights, will not affect  the economics of a water resource,                                                               
and will not degrade a fishery.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:14:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  assured the committee  he was not  trying to                                                               
hold  back  the  resolution,  but to  make  the  resolution  more                                                               
attractive for other states to support.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN expressed his support of the amendment.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:15:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was  taken.  Representatives Petersen, Tuck, and                                                               
Lynn voted  in favor  of Amendment  1.   Representatives Saddler,                                                               
Foster,  and Pruitt  voted against  it.   Therefore, Amendment  1                                                               
failed by a vote of 3-3.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:16:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT moved to report  HJR 23, Version 27-LS0660\M, out                                                               
of   committee   with    individual   recommendations   and   the                                                               
accompanying fiscal note.   There being no objection,  HJR 23 was                                                               
reported from the House Special Committee on Energy.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:16:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW:   Department of Natural  Resources on the  natural gas                                                               
potential in  the Nenana  River basin,  the Susitna  River basin,                                                               
the Copper River Valley basin, and the Bering Sea region                                                                        
OVERVIEW:   Department of  Natural Resources  on the  natural gas                                                           
potential in  the Nenana  River basin,  the Susitna  River basin,                                                           
the Copper River Valley basin, and the Bering Sea region                                                                    
                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:17:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be a presentation  by the Department of Natural  Resources on the                                                               
natural  gas potential  in the  Nenana River  basin, the  Susitna                                                               
River basin,  the Copper River  Valley basin, and the  Bering Sea                                                               
region.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:18:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB SWENSON,  Director, Central Office, Division  of Geological &                                                               
Geophysical  Surveys,  Department  of  Natural  Resources  (DNR),                                                               
advised that  activities in  the Cook Inlet  basin and  the North                                                               
Slope basin  are well reported,  and his presentation  will focus                                                               
on other  sedimentary basins  around the state.   He  displayed a                                                               
slide that showed  an outcropping of sandstone rock  on the Kenai                                                               
Peninsula which is typical of  tertiary basins throughout Alaska.                                                               
Slide  1   titled,  "Alaska's  Sedimentary   Basins  Oil   &  Gas                                                               
Potential" was a digital elevation  model which showed mountains,                                                               
valleys,  sedimentary   basins,  and  population  centers.     He                                                               
explained that the North Slope  basin is from the Mesozoic period                                                               
and  contains  the  oil  and   gas  presently  under  production;                                                               
however, about  65 million  years ago, the  southern part  of the                                                               
state went through  a phase of uplift and erosion  that created a                                                               
series  of   tertiary  basins,  which   are  the  focus   of  his                                                               
presentation.   Slide 2, titled, "Subduction  and Tectonics Drive                                                               
the  System,"  showed  an  oceanic  crust  subducting  beneath  a                                                               
continental  crust,  thereby creating  new  crust  at an  oceanic                                                               
spreading  ridge.      As   the  subducting  plate  encounters  a                                                               
continent, it sinks into the  Earth's mantle, loses rigidity, de-                                                               
waters, and creates zones of  volcanoes.  Slide 3 titled, "Alaska                                                               
is Complex, Both Topographically  & Geologically," explained that                                                               
Alaska is complex because the  subducting plate underneath is not                                                               
smooth, and  causes many active volcanoes,  earthquakes, and very                                                               
large  crustal-scale  faults,  such  as the  Denali  Fault  which                                                               
traveled and left behind large  tertiary basins.  Slide 4 titled,                                                               
"South  Alaska  Terranes,"  showed  the "docking"  of  the  large                                                               
Yakutat  block which  slid along  the strike-slip  system of  the                                                               
west coast of  North America until colliding in  the south Alaska                                                               
region, and  causing deformation  in Interior  Alaska and  in the                                                               
Cook Inlet.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:24:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER asked  whether  the  Yakutat block  moved                                                               
north.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON explained that the  Yakutat block slid along the West                                                               
Coast  until  it encountered  southern  Alaska  and the  Aleutian                                                               
Trench, then  it accreted onto the  continent causing deformation                                                               
in  Interior  Alaska.   Mr.  Swenson  displayed slide  5  titled,                                                               
"Mountain  Building   and  Depressions,"  and  pointed   out  the                                                               
location  of the  Denali Fault  and the  Castle Mountain  Fault -                                                               
active faults that  currently present geo-hazard.   He said there                                                               
is  a  continuation  of  mountain-building as  a  result  of  the                                                               
strike-slip  motion   of  the  Yakutat  block.     Following  the                                                               
mountain-building,  the  topography   begins  to  erode,  leaving                                                               
depressions along  the fault systems.   Although  the depressions                                                               
are  different, they  were filled  by organic  deposits from  the                                                               
meandering rivers  and with sandstone;  in fact, in parts  of the                                                               
Cook  Inlet  region, the  sediment  layer  is almost  five  miles                                                               
thick.   Slide 7 showed a  cross-section of several wells  in the                                                               
Beluga  River Gas  Field, and  illustrated the  material that  is                                                               
encountered  in the  wellbore, such  as coals,  sand bodies,  and                                                               
reservoir  quality sands  that trap  the natural  gas.   Later in                                                               
time  -  and as  a  result  of deformation  in  the  basin -  the                                                               
deposits  are "folded"  in the  layers of  sand, soapstones,  and                                                               
coals.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:29:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWENSON, in  response to  Representative Saddler,  indicated                                                               
that on slide 8, the  colored lines represent geologic formations                                                               
in the subsurface of Cook Inlet.   He emphasized that in tertiary                                                               
basins, petroleum systems  are created by the  temperature of the                                                               
rock  as layers  of  organic  carbon left  by  marine animals  or                                                               
terrestrial plants are  changed by heat and depth.   If the basin                                                               
does  not get  hot enough  to  create oil,  there are  biogenetic                                                               
systems that are  pure natural gas, as is 90  percent of the Cook                                                               
Inlet.    The gas  sits  in  place  until folding  and  uplifting                                                               
occurs, which reduces the pressure  and allows the gas to migrate                                                               
into the structure of the rock.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:32:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER surmised  the accumulation  material that                                                               
creates the  sandstone comes  from the  erosion of  the mountains                                                               
into lower areas.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWENSON  said correct;  in  fact,  all  of the  material  is                                                               
generated in the  mountain ranges and is carried  by streams into                                                               
the  basins, as  long  as the  basin continues  to  subside.   In                                                               
further  response to  Representative Saddler,  he explained  that                                                               
the temperature of  the rock depends on  the geothermal gradient,                                                               
which  is the  amount of  heat and  depth.   A normal  geothermal                                                               
gradient in  Alaska is  about 25 degrees  per kilometer,  thus at                                                               
10,000 feet, one would expect  to measure 200 degrees Fahrenheit.                                                               
A depth of  18,000-20,000 feet is required to  create enough heat                                                               
to generate hydrocarbons.  Slide 9  was a map which displayed the                                                               
location of all of the exploration  wells in the state.  Slide 10                                                               
was  a  map  that  showed  technically  recoverable  natural  gas                                                               
resources  estimated by  the U.S.  Geological Survey  (USGS); the                                                               
analysis ranged wildly  from basin to basin.  Slide  11 was a map                                                               
which  indicated the  geology of  the Yukon-Koyukuk/Upper  Tanana                                                               
Energy  Region,  including  Yukon,   Nenana,  Copper  River,  and                                                               
Susitna basins.   Slide 12 indicated the thickness  of the Nenana                                                               
sedimentary tertiary basin and its  two sub-basins that have been                                                               
explored for the last 20 years.   Slide 13 was a cross-section of                                                               
well-logs associated  with different  areas in the  Nenana basin,                                                               
which illustrated the stratigraphy of the basin.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:38:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWENSON displayed  a  picture of  an  uplifted rock  outcrop                                                               
located in  the Usibelli Group,  south of the  Nenana Exploration                                                               
License Area, with thick layers  of coals between thick layers of                                                               
coarse  sandstones;  gas  is  generated by  the  coals,  and  the                                                               
sandstones  reservoir the  gas.   He noted  that portions  of the                                                               
Nenana basin  are up to 18,000  feet thick, the oil  potential is                                                               
low, and  there is little  seismic data available from  the '80s.                                                               
Two exploratory wells have been  drilled, but only in a shallower                                                               
part of the basin.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:40:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked for  the  meaning  of a  "basement                                                               
high."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:40:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON  explained that the  "basement" is what  the tertiary                                                               
basin sits  on, and  a "basement  high" is  the portion  that has                                                               
been elevated by  a fault, thus it becomes the  high point in the                                                               
basement of  the basin.   Returning to  statistics on  the Nenana                                                               
basin, he noted  that there is significant  deformation along the                                                               
southern margin,  including large folds and  uplift stratigraphy,                                                               
which are an indication for further  exploration.  Slide 16 was a                                                               
diagram of  the Yukon  Flats basin, indicating  a large  and deep                                                               
basin approximately  23,000 feet  thick, and associated  with the                                                               
Tintina  Fault.   The Yukon  Flats  basin has  the same  tertiary                                                               
stratigraphy with  coals, sandstones, organic material,  and fair                                                               
potential  for the  presence of  natural  gas.   In the  Railbelt                                                               
region, the  Sustitna basin has  two sub-basins with  an uplifted                                                               
area -  a basement high  - in between.    Mr. Swenson  said there                                                               
has been little exploration in  this region; however, an upcoming                                                               
two-year study will soon begin.   Slide 18 provided a generalized                                                               
geologic map  of the Susitna  lowlands and a Bouguer  gravity map                                                               
of the Susitna  lowlands, for analysis.  The  stratigraphy of the                                                               
Susitna basin  is similar to the  Cook Inlet basin in  that it is                                                               
separated  by  the  active  Castle Mountain  Fault,  and  with  a                                                               
tertiary  section   15,000  feet  deep,   limited  oil-generative                                                               
capabilities  are indicated.     Two  wells drilled  in the  '60s                                                               
revealed the  basin is gas-prone  - but no oil-source  rocks have                                                               
been identified to date - and  further mapping is scheduled.  The                                                               
Copper River basin  is also similar to the Cook  Inlet basin, but                                                               
with only 3,000  feet of tertiary rock.  Its  western portion has                                                               
Mesozoic rock;  however, the rest  of the basin is  surrounded by                                                               
metamorphic and volcanic  rock.  Eleven wells  have been drilled,                                                               
and there  is limited  gravity and magnetic  data.   Although the                                                               
area   is  gas-prone,   no  commercial   discoveries  have   been                                                               
announced.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:46:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWENSON turned  to the  offshore  area of  the Bering  Shelf                                                               
basins, which is  an area of very large wrench  tectonics and big                                                               
strike-slip systems that create  accommodation space for deposits                                                               
of sand,  coal, and  shale.   It is important  to note  these are                                                               
primarily gas  plays in  the Hope,  Norton, Navarin,  St. George,                                                               
and  North Aleutian  basins, containing  mainly non-marine  coals                                                               
and continental-type  deposits.   In order  to explain  why there                                                               
are non-marine coals and terrestrial  deposits in the Bering Sea,                                                               
he provided slides of the changes  in the shoreline of the Bering                                                               
land bridge over the last 20,000 years.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:47:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWENSON, in  response to  Representative  Saddler, said  the                                                               
darker colors on  the slides indicate higher  elevations.  Twenty                                                               
thousand  years  ago  the  Bering   land  bridge  was  completely                                                               
exposed,  explaining why  coals  and  non-marine stratigraphy  is                                                               
found in basins out  on the Bering Shelf.  Slide 24  was a map of                                                               
the  North and  Hope basins  on the  Seward Peninsula,  which are                                                               
tertiary basins that were created  along the Kaltag Fault.  Slide                                                               
26 was a cross-section of  the Norton Basin structure that showed                                                               
many  faults  and  areas of  significant  deposits,  and  reveals                                                               
trapping configurations for accumulations  of natural gas or oil.                                                               
Mr.  Swenson reviewed  the exploration  history  of Norton  basin                                                               
beginning in  1982, and noted  that all of the  exploration wells                                                               
had  indications  of  natural  gas,  or weak  "oil  shows."    He                                                               
explained that a  "gas show" means there is an  indication of the                                                               
presence of  gas in  the mud  column pulled  up from  the ground;                                                               
"oil  shows" are  found by  looking at  the mud  samples under  a                                                               
black light.  Slide 28 was  a geology summary of Norton basin and                                                               
he pointed out the mid-tertiary  west sub-basin play has the best                                                               
potential   for  reservoir   quality;  in   fact,  the   Minerals                                                               
Management  Service  (MMS)  estimated   the  basin  contains  1.6                                                               
trillion cubic feet (tcf) of gas.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:54:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON described  the Navarin basin as the  largest and most                                                               
remote of the Bering Shelf basins.   It is 32,000 square miles in                                                               
size, and  is up to  36,000 feet thick.   Between 1983  and 1987,                                                               
nine wells  were drilled and  all indicated gas shows  or limited                                                               
oil-prone  source rocks,  and  he concluded  there  is very  good                                                               
exploration potential for this area.   At this time, there is not                                                               
a federal lease sale scheduled,  although MMS estimated there are                                                               
500 million barrels  of technically recoverable oil  (mmbo) and 6                                                               
tcf of gas  in the Navarin basin.  Mr.  Swenson's final slide was                                                               
titled,  "Alaska Energy  Data Inventory,"  and  he explained  his                                                               
division is assembling an inventory  of its work around the state                                                               
in  order   to  better  understand  each   area,  and  geographic                                                               
information  on  all of  the  basins  and their  stratigraphy  is                                                               
distributed on DNR's website.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:55:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER  asked why  the potential  of the  North Aleutian                                                               
basin was not presented.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON explained  the North Aleutian basin  was not included                                                               
in  his  presentation  because  there is  a  lot  of  information                                                               
available on  it, and on  the Bristol  Bay basin; in  fact, state                                                               
onshore lease sales  have been held, seismic work  has been done,                                                               
and there is  tremendous potential there with  thick sequences of                                                               
tertiary rock.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:56:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER observed the Navarin  basin appears to be located                                                               
in Russia.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWENSON  agreed  that  some  of  the  basin  is  in  Russian                                                               
territory,  but American  waters have  been explored  by Atlantic                                                               
Richfield Oil Company (ARCO).                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked for the meaning of "unfiltered gas."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:57:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON clarified  he meant to say "pure methane  gas" with a                                                               
single molecule.  This gas is  unlike gas in a thermogenic system                                                               
that has  lots of associated liquids,  but it is like  Cook Inlet                                                               
gas, which does not have to be processed at the surface.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  asked Mr. Swenson  to rank the  basins on                                                               
their prospects for exploration.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:58:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON  acknowledged ranking at  this time is  difficult due                                                               
to the lack of information.    Generally, basins can be ranked by                                                               
thickness; for  example, the  Copper River  basin only  has 3,000                                                               
feet, and its tertiary section  would be limited, whereas a basin                                                               
with  a layer  23,000 feet  thick has  more generative  capacity.                                                               
Also, deformation, uplifting, and unfolding  to release the gas -                                                               
as found in the Nenana, Yukon, and  Susitna basins - is key.  The                                                               
final challenge  is the distance  from the well site  to existing                                                               
infrastructure compared  to the size  of the prize;  these basins                                                               
are relatively small and exploration is expensive.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:00:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN asked  whether the  wells are  searching                                                               
for  "traditional"   gas,  coalbed  methane,  shale   gas,  or  a                                                               
combination thereof.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWENSON  advised  that  there is  a  lot  of  unconventional                                                               
potential  for these  basins; as  a  matter of  fact, the  basins                                                               
under  discussion have  a  lot  of coal  and  some potential  for                                                               
coalbed methane.   He described  the process necessary to  have a                                                               
viable coalbed methane play.    He said marine shales - like what                                                               
are  being delineated  in the  Lower 48  - are  not likely  to be                                                               
found in Interior basins.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:02:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  called attention  to the  Susitna basin  and its                                                               
possibilities for gas.  He  asked about the potential for finding                                                               
gas there,  and the feasibility  of getting  it to the  market in                                                               
Southcentral.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:03:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON  affirmed that his  division is continuing  to gather                                                               
geological information in this region.   He pointed out there are                                                               
two depocenters in the basin,  and areas of deformation along the                                                               
Castle   Mountain  Fault;   in   addition,   there  is   tertiary                                                               
stratigraphy similar  to that of  Cook Inlet.  He  explained that                                                               
the previous exploration  of this area was  limited because there                                                               
is no oil, and this basin  does not have the generative potential                                                               
of Cook Inlet.  However, although  the Susitna basin may not have                                                               
the highest  generative potential,  it is attractive  to industry                                                               
because of its proximity to infrastructure and market.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:05:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FOSTER  asked  for  the  impact  of  future  government                                                               
regulations  possibly "clamping  down on  coal," and  encouraging                                                               
the use of cleaner-burning fuels.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON advised  that the geology of any of  the basins under                                                               
discussion is  good enough for  exploration in the Lower  48, but                                                               
their location in  Alaska limits exploration.    Another limiting                                                               
factor is that  because of the cost of  exploration, the industry                                                               
must look for a very  large accumulation, which probably will not                                                               
be found  in a smaller  basin.   In the long-term,  providing the                                                               
industry with more data will allow  explorers to focus on a given                                                               
area.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:07:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  asked for the source  and the sufficiency                                                               
of the division's data.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON  said the division  does not have sufficient  data to                                                               
totally  classify the  basins.   One source  of data  is airborne                                                               
gravity,  airborne geophysics,  and  magnetics.   Also, there  is                                                               
seismic  data from  the '60s  through the  '80s, gathered  during                                                               
exploration drilling in  the Bering Sea and  the Interior basins.                                                               
Other data  available is ground  mapping; however, in  the basins                                                               
proper,  there  are  limited  rock   outcroppings.    In  further                                                               
response to  Representative Saddler,  Mr. Swenson  indicated that                                                               
the  prospects for  more data  include continuous  mapping around                                                               
the  state   for  more  surface   information.    Some   data  is                                                               
confidential, and  can be used  for interpretation by  the state,                                                               
but cannot be published.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:10:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT referred  to the potential of  the Navarin basin,                                                               
and asked  whether newer  technologies will  allow access  to its                                                               
resources.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON said  yes, and added that technology  is advancing in                                                               
surface and  subsurface drilling  techniques.   However, problems                                                               
with the  Navarin basin  are its  remote location,  distance from                                                               
infrastructure, and the cost of exploration.    He opined a large                                                               
company would  need to expect 6  tcf of gas from  a single field,                                                               
rather than the entire basin,  in order to justify an exploration                                                               
program there.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:12:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT  surmised  some  resources will  be  trapped  by                                                               
location and other limiting factors.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWENSON  acknowledged that  15 years ago  he did  not believe                                                               
there  would be  the  production of  oil and  gas  out of  shale;                                                               
however,  although  "things  change,"  gas in  the  basins  is  a                                                               
stranded resource right now.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:13:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 4:13 p.m. to 4:19 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:19:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW(S):  RURAL  CAP'S ENERGY WISE PROGRAM  TO REDUCE ENERGY                                                               
COSTS                                                                                                                           
OVERVIEW(S):   RURAL CAP'S ENERGY  WISE PROGRAM TO  REDUCE ENERGY                                                           
COSTS                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:19:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER announced that the  final order of business would                                                               
be a  presentation on RurAL  CAP's Energy Wise Program  to Reduce                                                               
Energy Costs.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:19:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SARA  SCANLAN, Deputy  Director,  Rural  Alaska Community  Action                                                               
Program,  Inc.  (RurAL CAP),  informed  the  committee RurAL  CAP                                                               
assists  over  90  communities   around  the  state  with  proven                                                               
programs  such as  early childhood  education, housing  programs,                                                               
construction,  weatherization, community  development, supportive                                                               
housing,  and energy  programs.   She expressed  support for  the                                                               
committee's work  on alternative  and traditional  energy sources                                                               
to reduce  the energy burden  of Alaskans.  Ms.  Scanlan observed                                                               
that at this time of year  rural communities are getting ready to                                                               
order their  annual supplies of  fuel oil  and gas, and  there is                                                               
concern  about the  effect  of rising  prices  on elders,  senior                                                               
citizens, and  others who live  on fixed incomes.   The following                                                               
presentation illustrated  how state investment can  produce jobs,                                                               
create  disposable income,  and  return a  quick  pay-off of  the                                                               
state's  investment,  and  also   provided  data  supporting  the                                                               
benefits of the Energy Wise  program.  Ms. Scanlan concluded that                                                               
the Energy  Wise Program provides  another alternative  to reduce                                                               
the  energy  burden  on  residents,   and  to  fill  the  gap  in                                                               
affordable  energy  until  large renewable  energy  projects  are                                                               
done.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:22:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CATHIE CLEMENTS,  Community Development Division  Director, Rural                                                               
Alaska  Community Action  Program,  Inc.  (RurAL CAP),  explained                                                               
RurAL CAP's Energy  Wise Program is targeted to  address the high                                                               
cost of energy  in rural Alaska that can amount  to 30-40 percent                                                               
of a rural resident's disposable  income.  At this time, programs                                                               
available to  combat this high  cost, such as the  state's energy                                                               
efficiency weatherization and home  rebate programs, are hard for                                                               
rural residents to access because  of the requirements for energy                                                               
audits and the  payment of up-front costs.   Therefore, RurAL CAP                                                               
designed the Energy  Wise Program to meet the  immediate needs of                                                               
rural residents through energy  efficiency education and behavior                                                               
change.  The  program was piloted in 2010  with Community Service                                                               
Block  Grant -  American Recovery  and Reinvestment  Act of  2009                                                               
(CSBG-ARRA)  funding,  and its  goals  are:  save money  on  home                                                               
energy bills  through behavior change and  low-cost home upgrades                                                               
that  can be  completed by  the  resident; create  local jobs  to                                                               
provide  training  and  education  in  energy  efficiency.    Ms.                                                               
Clements  relayed  the immediate  benefits  of  the program  are:                                                               
cost savings  for both  the resident  and the  state in  that one                                                               
dollar saved by  a rural resident saves the state  two dollars in                                                               
support of the Power Cost  Equalization (PCE) program; employment                                                               
and training of local crews.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:27:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.   CLEMENTS  continued,   noting   that   the  long-term   and                                                               
sustainable benefit of  the program is that  it teaches behaviors                                                               
that will  benefit communities  and families  for years  to come.                                                               
An   effective  model   of  behavior   change  requires   several                                                               
meaningful   contacts,  thus   the   program   is  designed   for                                                               
interaction  with  residents at  many  levels;  for example,  the                                                               
first contact is  with local crews.  Next,  residents are invited                                                               
to  an  energy  fair  that  involves  the  entire  community  and                                                               
provides  an  opportunity  for  residents to  sign  up  for  home                                                               
assessments.  During the home  assessments, local crews of two to                                                               
three members  spend eight  hours in  the home,  reviewing energy                                                               
bills and  advising on  the use  of energy.   Residents  are also                                                               
provided  with about  $300 worth  of  installed energy  supplies,                                                               
such  as compact  fluorescent lamp  (CFL)  bulbs.   Three to  six                                                               
months after the  home assessment, there is a  follow-up visit by                                                               
one or  two members of  the crew to provide  additional education                                                               
and to  conduct a survey  of savings.   Ms. Clements  pointed out                                                               
that the Energy  Wise Program complements - but  does not replace                                                               
- the  weatherization program, which  focuses on  physical energy                                                               
improvements to  a home, and  instead "Energy Wise looks  at that                                                               
people part,  the behavior  change."    Targeted  communities for                                                               
the   pilot  program   were  those   that   were  not   receiving                                                               
weatherization; however,  RurAL CAP  is interested  in partnering                                                               
with   existing  programs   and   providing   education  in   all                                                               
communities.   In fact, implementation  of the Energy  Wise pilot                                                               
program was  possible in  collaboration with  other organizations                                                               
including:   Alaska  Housing Finance  Corporation, Department  of                                                               
Revenue;  Alaska   Energy  Authority,  Department   of  Commerce,                                                               
Community  &   Economic  Development;  Denali   Commission;  U.S.                                                               
Department   of  Energy;   regional   and  local   organizations;                                                               
Renewable Energy Alaska  Project; University of Alaska-Anchorage,                                                               
Institute  of Social  and Economic  Research, which  provided the                                                               
evaluation component; Alaska  Village Electric Cooperative, which                                                               
provided "one-year before and  one-year after" electricity bills.                                                               
Ms. Clements  concluded by  calling attention  to the  letters of                                                               
support  provided in  the committee  packets  from NANA  Regional                                                               
Corporation,  Tanana Chiefs  Conference, Central  Council Tlingit                                                               
Haida  Indian Tribes  of Alaska,  Tlingit-Haida Regional  Housing                                                               
Authority,  Northwest Arctic  Borough, Denali  Commission, Alaska                                                               
Native  Tribal  Health  Consortium, U.S.  Department  of  Energy,                                                               
National  Renewable  Energy  Lab,   rural  tribal  councils,  and                                                               
residents.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:32:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ELLEN  KAZARY,   Community  Development  Manager,   Rural  Alaska                                                               
Community  Action Program,  Inc.  (RurAL  CAP), emphasized  RurAL                                                               
CAP's pilot Energy  Wise Program was very successful:   160 rural                                                               
Alaskans  were  trained and  employed;  2,000  homes were  served                                                               
within  a  12-month  period;  90  percent  of  the  crew  members                                                               
completed  training and  the project;  education was  provided to                                                               
7,500 residents;  energy and money  were saved.  The  training of                                                               
local  crew members  included  certifications in  weatherization,                                                               
Occupational Safety  and Health Administration (OSHA),  and first                                                               
aid,  with  the idea  that  certification  in these  areas  would                                                               
ensure  crew   members'  future  employment  in   the  fields  of                                                               
construction  and maintenance.      Ms.  Kazary provided  a slide                                                               
that  showed the  energy-saving supplies  that were  installed in                                                               
homes, and  said the items  were all low-cost, low-tech,  easy to                                                               
install,  and easy  to  replace.   She  acknowledged that  energy                                                               
efficiency  and  conservation  is   often  taught  with  "passive                                                               
education;"  however,  this program  -  through  home visits  and                                                               
personal contact - provides personal  incentives for change.  She                                                               
presented  slides  and further  details  on  crew training,  home                                                               
assessments,  and  energy  fairs,  and stressed  that  the  final                                                               
survey is conducted in person  during an additional home visit to                                                               
answer  questions  and  discuss   results.    Energy  fairs  were                                                               
described as  exciting community events involving  members of the                                                               
community of all ages.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:39:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN asked  for information  on the  shipping                                                               
costs and the source of the energy-saving supplies.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KAZARY responded  that the  $300 cost  of goods  included an                                                               
average of shipping  costs, and that any  supplies available were                                                               
purchased in-state.  She continued  to provide slides that showed                                                               
crew training,  the delivery of  supplies, safety  equipment, and                                                               
tools,  and  of  crew  members  in  homes  installing  materials,                                                               
teaching  maintenance on  appliances, and  reading energy  bills.                                                               
The program makes  extensive use of a  "Kill-a-Watt meter," which                                                               
indicates  the  power  used  by an  appliance  or  an  electronic                                                               
device.   Many slides portrayed  crews working with  residents in                                                               
their homes.     Ms. Kazary  turned to the  results of  the pilot                                                               
program and  relayed that residents immediately  reported $20-$30                                                               
per month saved in the cost  of electricity, and that their homes                                                               
were warmer.   The following  additional information  was gleaned                                                               
from  700  surveys:   86  percent  reported they  were  following                                                               
energy efficiency and conservation  measures; 80 percent reported                                                               
decreased  electric bills;  82  percent  reported decreased  home                                                               
heating costs.   To  determine the  Energy Wise  Project payback,                                                               
she  said  the  total  cost   of  the  program  including  crews,                                                               
management,  training, travel,  supplies, and  shipping, averaged                                                               
about $2,000  per home and  savings in energy bills  averaged $50                                                               
per month  per home; therefore,  residents are saving  about $600                                                               
per year and  PCE is reduced by  $468 per year, per  home.  These                                                               
figures  indicate that  the project  payback is  less than  three                                                               
years.    Furthermore,  before the  program  was  available,  the                                                               
average  residential electric  bill was  $186 for  287.5 kilowatt                                                               
hours (kWhs) per month, and of  that $63 was paid by the resident                                                               
and $123  was paid by PCE.   After Energy Wise,  the average bill                                                               
was $127 for  195.7 kWhs per month,  and of that $43  was paid by                                                               
the resident and  $84 paid by PCE, for an  average savings of $20                                                               
to the resident and $39 to PCE per month.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. KAZARY advised  RurAL CAP's 2011 budget request  to the state                                                               
is  $1.96 million,  which will  be leveraged  with $1  million in                                                               
matching  funds   from  NANA   Regional  Corporation   and  other                                                               
partners.   RurAL CAP's goal for  2011 is to provide  Energy Wise                                                               
services  to  1,500 homes  in  10-15  communities, and  to  hire,                                                               
train,  and certify  150 local  residents.   A  breakdown of  the                                                               
Energy   Wise  budget   indicated   approximately  one-half   was                                                               
dedicated   for   employment,   approximately   one-quarter   was                                                               
dedicated  for   supplies,  and  approximately   one-quarter  was                                                               
dedicated for logistics and management.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:49:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KAZARY observed that as a  result of the Energy Wise Program,                                                               
projected annual savings to  residents is approximately $765,000,                                                               
and projected annual  savings to PCE is $596,700, for  a total of                                                               
$1.3  million.   As  the  cost  of  the  Energy Wise  Program  is                                                               
estimated at $3  million per year, she restated  that the project                                                               
payback in savings to the state will be two to three years.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:49:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DIANA RAMOTH informed the committee  her village was selected for                                                               
the Energy Wise  program because of the high  cost of electricity                                                               
and fuel there.  She said two of  her sons were hired to work for                                                               
the program and  trained at her house.  After  training, her sons                                                               
helped other  villagers learn how  to save electricity.   She has                                                               
benefitted from  the program and is  now able to pay  her bill on                                                               
time.   Ms. Ramoth stated her  energy costs have been  reduced by                                                               
about 50  percent, and she  appreciated how the  program benefits                                                               
elders, and trains young people for work.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:54:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN commended the  program.  He asked whether                                                               
the jobs are permanent.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. KAZARY explained that the jobs  last 8-14 weeks.  Some of the                                                               
crew leaders train crews in  nearby communities, and RurAL CAP is                                                               
establishing  a network  so weatherization  programs and  housing                                                               
authorities  know  of  the  local  residents  who  have  received                                                               
training.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:56:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER observed  that even a few jobs have  a big effect                                                               
on small communities.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT,  after receiving  confirmation that  2,000 homes                                                               
were served last  year, expressed his concern  that federal money                                                               
may not be available in the future.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:59:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KAZARY affirmed  that RurAL  CAP  has a  contract with  NANA                                                               
Regional Corporation for $860,000 and  it is optimistic about its                                                               
applications to other partners.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  asked in  what region the  homes targeted                                                               
for next year are located.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:00:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. CLEMENTS  stated RurAL  CAP's intent  is to  have a  fair and                                                               
open application  process for communities  and regions,  and that                                                               
the  applications   will  be  evaluated   with  regard   to  each                                                               
community's  needs and  resources.   Funding from  the state  and                                                               
other  partners will  ensure that  communities  across the  state                                                               
benefit from the program.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:01:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Special Committee on Energy meeting was adjourned at 5:01 p.m.                                                                  

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HJR 23 - 01 Original Version, Version M.PDF HENE 3/24/2011 3:00:00 PM
HJR 23
HJR 23 - 03 National Hydropower Association Study Highlights.pdf HENE 3/24/2011 3:00:00 PM
HJR 23
HJR 23 - 02 Sponsor Statement.pdf HENE 3/24/2011 3:00:00 PM
HJR 23
HJR 23 - 04 Senator Lisa Murkowski Hydro Renewable Energy Development Act of 2011.pdf HENE 3/24/2011 3:00:00 PM
HJR 23
HJR 23 - 05 Legislative Affairs Agency Fiscal Note, HJR23-LEG-COU-3-21-2011.pdf HENE 3/24/2011 3:00:00 PM
HJR 23
Bob Swenson Presentation on Sedimentary Basins of Alaska.pdf HENE 3/24/2011 3:00:00 PM
Bob Swenson Presentation on Sedimentary Basins of Alaska
HJR 23 - 06 Amendment #1.pdf HENE 3/24/2011 3:00:00 PM
HJR 23
Energy Wise Overview for Energy Committee by RurAL CAP.pdf HENE 3/24/2011 3:00:00 PM
RurAL CAP Presentation